A Bracknell Forest MP and government aide has been caught on tape describing the government’s flagship plan to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda as “crap”.
James Sunderland, who has served as the Conservatives representative for the borough between 2019 and 2024, attended an event on April 2 for Young Conservatives organised by a group called the True Blue Patrons Supper Club.
In a secret recording, passed to the BBC, he is heard saying: "The policy is crap, OK? It’s crap."
He goes on to defend the plan, saying it will deter migrants from trying to enter the UK by crossing the Channel.
"It’s not about the policy. It’s about the effect of the policy," he says.
The secret recording of Sunderland was played on the BBC ‘Sunday’s with Laura Kuenssberg’ this morning during an interview with James Cleverly.
The home secretary defended his aides decision to use the incendiary term saying that it was to "shock and grab the attention of the audience".
In the recording, Mr Sunderland is heard to say: "I have been part of this for the last two years, and I’m immersed in it and I probably shouldn’t say too much.
"What I would say to you is that - nobody has got their cameras on, their phones - the policy is crap, OK? It’s crap."
According to the recording, he compares a similar policy put in place in Australia saying it had a “devastating effect”.
He goes on to say: "But it’s not about the policy. It’s about the effect of the policy. It’s the second- or third-order effects.
"In Australia, for example, a similar policy had a devastating effect. There is no doubt at all that when those first flights take off that it will send such a shockwave across the Channel that the gangs will stop."
In the interview with Kuenssberg, Cleverley defended Sunderland saying: “It’s important that you played the whole answer. I know James has worked incredibly hard on the policy, and whilst the opening words were clearly designed to shock and grab the attention of the audience, the point he made was absolutely right in the latter part of the quote.
“The deterrent effect on the people smuggling gangs and the people they’re trying to make money from is what we are seeking to achieve. And he’s absolutely right that in other places where that deterrent has been put in place, it’s been having an effect.”
But Kuenssberg hit back: “One of your own team told a friendly private audience, when he didn’t realise he was being recorded, that he thought the policy was crap.”
As Cleverly again said he had done so to “grab the attention of the audience”, the presenter asked him: “Why would he do that with a friendly, private audience of Conservative supporters?”
The home secretary said: “The full quote made it absolutely clear that James said when the flights take off it will send a shockwave across the Channel. The deterrent will dissuade the people smuggling gangs and the people they are preying upon.”
The Bracknell News has reached out to James Sunderland for comment.
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